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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 26 Apr 2011, 23:33 
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electrohawk wrote:
On the HKPRO forums, a highly thought of maker is a bit newer to the game: Dakota Tactical.
HKParts.net actually sells their stuff. They are more expensive then the ones previously mentioned here.
They start at $2500 and go up from there...


The HK-HO forums are a bunch of shitbags too. They boot off whomever they don't like while touting the hack "ghilliebear" whose work is some of the shoddiest, out-of-spec crap I've ever seen!

I've got one in here right now, where the carrier was hanging up during cyclings and making the gun feel "weird" when you cocked it. Turns out that, it wasn't what I had thought it was, the ejector blade rubbing, but "blow through" on a "quality" ghilliebear weld, which penetrated the cocking tube and cause the carrier to bang against it before moving past. 2 minutes with a drill extension and a stone and some compressed air. Tiny stuff which could've made the builder not look like a hack.

But he's protected "from on high" by the grifting douches who run that site and no criticism is allowed. Moderaturd "Straightgrain" is a lowballing grifter scumbag who will offer you pennies on the dollar for HK stuff, and when you laugh at him and call him the TOOL he rightly is, simply kick you off the board and lock you out.



Hell, I got a forum here and everyone knows if I F up, I OWN up.

D.

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 27 Apr 2011, 00:06 
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Berd wrote:
montecarlo78 wrote:
Image


Paging KingJoey, KingJoey to this thread please.


Must.....resist........won't......talk......................shit...... [smilie=icon_lol.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 27 Apr 2011, 10:19 
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AZEX wrote:
... because folks know that it works when it leaves here, and if it doesn't, I'll take a loss to make it work or make it right.

Quality has a quantity all it's own. It's akin to a choice between 2 dozen Hi-Points or 6 perfect Hi-Powers.

D.

+1000
Quality and a real man-up warranty. It does not get better than that!

So last time I was in you had a bunch you were making but they were all .40's
Any chance you will do 9mm's again?


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 28 Apr 2011, 00:37 
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Finding all German parts kits is a real PITA and very expensive.

But I can do one, for 3K or so. All Deutch except for the receiver.

D.

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 28 Apr 2011, 09:02 
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I have an AZEX HK MP5 kit build that I LOOOOVVEEE.....

....except for the part on the receiver that says Speshul Weapons. Runs 100% with HK mags, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 28 Apr 2011, 13:20 
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2 AZEX SBR MP5's owned, both 100% German kits built on the above named receivers. Both have issue related to the receivers, but both function and look awesome. The holes for the push pins are off on both, Lots of R&R of the welds was done. If you want one built locally and are not in a hurry talk to AZEX. Or buy an original HK 94

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 29 Apr 2011, 22:37 
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AZEX wrote:
Finding all German parts kits is a real PITA and very expensive.

But I can do one, for 3K or so. All Deutch except for the receiver.

D.


Do they come with Lederhosen? [smilie=icon_lol.gif]

---Ford---


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 12 May 2011, 08:26 
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I'd look for an HK 94 and SBR it.


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 12 May 2011, 08:39 
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samnev wrote:
I'd look for an HK 94 and SBR it.

So obvious and yet elegant.

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 11:17 
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2ndchance wrote:
I don't understand why there are so many haters.


Hate? Not at all.
Trust Bailey's business practices? Again, not at all.

-----

1. Quality of Products
For the quality of Bailey's work, I've heard anecdotes here and there. I know people that have had bad experiences from Bailey's QA/lack of QA, and others that are shooting theirs just fine. My observation is that there is an extremely high rate of complaints when compared with other companies of almost any industry. Here's a pictorial analysis of the QA: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/n ... ksw5.shtml

2. Bailey's Personal Statements
I have never spoken with Bailey. People that I trust have and they were less than pleased with Bailey's personal interactions. I've read a number of Bailey's comments online; his statements are not indicative of other reputable business-persons with whom I've dealt.

3. Corporate Structuring
Bailey's pattern of business practices of a rat's nest of corporations is well documented. The rate at which these companies have been shifted around isn't even close to what a reputable company would consider doing. Companies associated with these types of negative business practices might be epitomized by Enron.

Companies include:

Tactical Weapons Training Academy, Inc.
Coharie Arms, Inc.
Coharie Ordinance Factory, Inc.
Coharie Military, Inc.
Omega Arms, Inc.
Special Weapons, Inc., A Close Corporation
ACME Parts, Inc.
Active Manufacturing Corp.
Weapons Import, Inc.
Black Market Parts
BCH Manufacturing, LLC
Top Notch Accessories, LLC
Top Notch Accessories, Inc.
Bobcat Weapons, Inc.
Red Rock Arms
GenX, Inc.

The companies are not all in Bailey's name, but oft times in his wife's name, uncle, brother-in-law, mother-in-law, former coworker's name, etc. Often they register to a private residence in Mesa or shared ("co-located") addresses. But in each situation, Bailey was a key dealmaker to form the entity and/or the business plan.

But we could spend all day on the intertwined ownerships.

4. Service
Bobcat Weapons talked about a lifetime warranty and I think Coharie does too. But the warranty is only serviceable by that legal entity or another entity that buys out the obligations. Given Bailey's extensive corporation-hopping, I wouldn't trust such a warranty.

-----

For those that are fine with handing over their money to such an organization, have at it. But the above documented business practices do not even come close to ethical behaviors that I would expect from a local ice cream shop, let alone a firearm manufacturer.

-----

Better yet, suppose you were rich enough to be buying helicopters. If Bailey was the Chief Operating Officer of the helicopter company, would you trust the helo to fly you and your family safely? Would you trust a few million dollars to a company with a corporate structure like the above Bailey companies?

If you answered "yes," then you're in luck, Bailey's now working (part time) on building helos:
http://www.pegasusheli.com

...well, not actually building...so far they're taking orders and also advertising for more investors.

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 14:33 
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zr1 wrote:

Companies include:

Tactical Weapons Training Academy, Inc.
Coharie Arms, Inc.
Coharie Ordinance Factory, Inc.
Coharie Military, Inc.
Omega Arms, Inc.
Special Weapons, Inc., A Close Corporation
ACME Parts, Inc.
Active Manufacturing Corp.
Weapons Import, Inc.
Black Market Parts
BCH Manufacturing, LLC
Top Notch Accessories, LLC
Top Notch Accessories, Inc.
Bobcat Weapons, Inc.
Red Rock Arms
GenX, Inc.


Well, I can only speak for myself. All the guns I own are from Special Weapons. I purchased them back in 1999-2003. I don't deal with any specific "company". I deal with Todd Bailey. If I have an issue, I call him or email him. He has never failed to respond to me or fix my issues (which has not been much). I had a recent issue with my lower on my SW5. He sent me a new replacement free of charge. This was 2 months ago.

Your list of companies is a bit exaggerated.

Omega was the original company. They changed the name to Special Weapons when they started to expand the SW-5 line.

Both Top Notch Accessories is the same company, it was a corporate status change.

Tactical Weapons Training Academy, Inc. was created to sell just two specific firearms. The SP-10 and SW32/52. Supposedly a requirement since they were exporting them to a foreign military/LEO.

Bobcat weapons and Red Rock Arms was the same company. When bobcat lost the license to sell SW-5 type rifles, they changed their name and started selling FAL type guns. The owner is NOT related to the Bailey.

When bobcat failed, they put the firearms back on the market. Since Special weapons was "gone", they created Cohaire. All three Cohaires are the same company, just 3 entities to address three markets. Retail, LEO, import/export.

Now, I don't want to open any old wounds. I have many friends who own their firearms (SW, cohaire, bobcat...) and they are all happy. I am happy as well. We all deal with Todd and Wendy directly. We just call if we need anything, email them, or make a comment on the forum board.

The point is, they are a small company that brought out a very high demand product. Lots of other companies bashed them because they refused to sell parts/receivers to them. They were selling faster than they could make them. If someone fell through the loop and got screwed they scream LOUD on the forum boards, their friends, and anyone that will listen to them. Yeah, the power of the internet. When someone is happy, they keep it to themselves or tell their friends about it. The loudest noise get the attention, right!

Personally, I think its pathetic. To each his own.

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 22:17 
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There are better alternatives available than dealing with questionable weapons or business practices. Having a quality builder like Derek involved is far better. My experience with Vector has also been decent in both performance of their products and service. There are also HK series guns being imported by ATI from a manufacturer in Turkey. While I have not shot one, the build quality looks pretty decent. I have seen better welds and time will tell. If anyone has first hand experience with this series of HK style weapons, it would be a great thing to add to this discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 23:07 
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LOL.. hard to say better. Vector use to get their receivers from Todd Bailey. Todd quit selling to them because Vector was bad mouthing him. That's why Vector no longer offers a MP5 clone. They do list a MP5 pistol... for $2,500. Yikes! Probably because its the last of their inventory, no one in their right mind would buy it, so they can still show inventory and put it on their web site.

ATI isn't an exact clone. It just resembles an MP5/HK94. The stock and trigger group is one piece (AT94A2). Therefore, interchangeability is in big question right now. The mag well has "blocks" welded inside to restrict the gun to only use their magazine. Why? Because they can only offer a 10 round magazine, per the strict importation laws. You may be able to grind down the magazine well to accept HK style mags (probably). Not sure about one piece stock and trigger group, though.

Image

Here's a youtube video of it from the SHOT show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2WSFYJj5U


They offer a SP89 version, but no forward grip, or forend, plus a barrel that cannot be threaded, or lugged.

Image

This one looks promising. It's a long barreled pistol. May be able to add the forend and a stock. Again, the interchangeability is still in question.

Image

Vulcan Arms/Hesse also made one. Again, not a clone, just a look alike. Parts do not interchange. Their design, but so far it's not holding up. They use to buy receivers from Todd Bailey. Again, Todd cut them off for badmouthing them, so this is what they were left to do.. make a clone of a clone. :)

Image

All this crap with Todd and all these other clone MFG is documented all over the internet and forum boards. Let's get back to the purpose of the thread.

Is there a good clone? Sure, AZEX makes some really great stuff (and a super nice guy). If you got the cash, go for it. RTDS will take any true clone and make it rock like a Ferrari. But it will cost you about the same (Ferrari) and takes about 10 months. If you're on a budget and want something that is better than average, Cohaire is a good choice.

The bonus is... all three of these companies are located in Arizona! Keep the $$ in our state. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 23:09 
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Exaggerated? Not in the least. As previously mentioned, it's a list of corporate entities that Bailey was a key component of the creation of the corporate entity and/or business plan.

But I'm not speaking for myself, I'm relating filed documents and public statements of the owners.

2ndchance wrote:
The owner [of Bobcat/Red Rock] is NOT related to the Bailey.


Fantastic example.
Related as in family reunions and Thanksgiving dinners? Not at all. Related as in Bailey was a key component of the creation of the corporate entity and/or business plan as stated in the list? Yes.

Bobcat is listed under Andy Bonas. Bonas has stated that he and Bailey are long time acquaintances dating back to when they worked together at TRW. Furthermore, Bonas said that Bailey was key to the forming of Bobcat in 2003 at the same time Bailey's other corporate entities were going through one of their multiple corporate restructures. Bonas said that part of the business plan involved multiple corporations to compliment each other and Bonas signed up Bobcat to be at the same address. Bobcat is still listed as a corporate entity and also lists Red Rock Arms as a subsidiary.

Anyway, I wasn't there, and perhaps you are correct and Bonas was lying.

Subsequent to the above, Bonas has since stated some differences of opinion with Bailey and also stated that Bobcat has ceased their original business plan with Bailey, Bailey's sub-companies, and Bailey's associates.

If you feel that Bailey's high rate of corporate restructuring is in line with positive business practices, particularly for a "small company*," that's up to you.




* That would be "a small collection of over a dozen companies."

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 Post subject: Re: Do they make a semi auto MP5?
New postPosted: 24 May 2011, 23:35 
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There is another company out there making MP5 flats and supplying parts kits. Not sure who they are but there is a Testimonial from Bill Flemming of Flemming Firearms that reads"

"The quality of your MP5 flat is the best I have seen anywhere in the world... outside of Oberndorf, Germany. I only wish you would do the shooting industry here in the USA a favor and start producing both the G3 as well as the 33 receiver flats! Keep up the GREAT work!!!"

Bill Fleming
Fleming Firearms, Inc


If you can't find a actual HK94, this may be another option, then get with AZEX.

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