ArizonaShooting.com

So I'm pretty much on track?
I am really wondering why people (people who have multiple NFA items in Arizona)
keep strongly suggesting I go the individual person transfer through either
Chandler chief or Joe signature when there are so many pro's to going the
trust route especially if you are going to do multiple items.

Schedule A is the shared property placed in the trust (this would be the one US Dollar that is used in examples)
Schedule B is the separate property of the first trustee (usually the husband) placed in trust
Schedule C is the separate property of the second trustee (usually the wife) placed in trust

IANAL, but I do a lot of research online.

I was looking for a more updated answer to this as it is also something of interest to me. I have found contradicting information all over the web. Don't really have the change for a lawyer but more of "the more you know" kind of deal.

So if I get an SBR and I am the grantor, both my father and I would be trustees and both could use it separately or would I only be able to use it but he can be in possession of it holding on to it for me?

The trustees can be anybody. They don't have to be related. There doesn't have to be two trustees. There can be 1 or 14 or whatever. However, the details of the trust have to accommodate each trustee as to what they can or cannot do. The Quicken Willmaker type trusts are simple enough for 1-2 trustees. For more, yeah...perhaps Gun Trust Lawyer is a better route for added complexity.

is there anyone in phx/scottsdale/mesa area i could have set a trust up for me?

+1 to that question. I know exactly what I want. I've done all the research. I just need a professional (attorney) that I can meet with, and ultimately draft the trust. I've talked to David Goldman (www.guntrustlawyer.com) and emailed C. Dennis Brislawn (www.gundocxlawyers.com) and while the may indeed provide good trust templates to firms nationwide for a price, I don't like the copy and paste approach to law and more importantly my legal rights in regards to the NFA. I want someone local that I can meet face to face and discuss my options.

If there are any trust lawyers on this forum that need a client, please PM me.

I talked to two different attorneys about it and got these reponses...

When asking about setting up a trust "for the purpose of having the trust own the firearm"...
He looked at me like I was from Mars. He hadn't heard of it and didn't know of precedence on it. Since it was out of his realm, he was not sure how to defend the document in court, and therefore could not (as an attorney has a fiduciary duty to give the best advice to their knowledge) do up the trust.

When asking about setting up a trust "for the purpose of transferring assets in the untimely event that I was no more"...
Yes, this could be done. But it would be very much based upon a standard assets trust....and priced at about $1,500 - $1,600.
Sure, the trust could own a firearm or any other asset. But as GunTrustLawyer points out many times on their writings, it may not include some needed aspects.

But that's a very small sampling of the many attorneys around, so there may be some that are familiar with the idea.

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Last, somebody close to me used to do paralegal in some local attorney offices and the office had templates for almost everything, including trusts, LLC's, and more that all the attorneys in the office would modify to fit the client's individual situation.

I have been teeter tottering on this for a long time too, but I have pretty much settled that when I eventually get one done, I will just have AZEX do it for me.
I just have to remember to only bring enough money for the Trust, otherwise I will buy some more toys from him

I'm not at all surprised that you received the first response. Trusts and estate planning are as much an exclusive realm of law as is criminal defense or product liability law. Everyone has their speciality, so the challenge is finding someone that specializes in this. I would assume that some trust attorney somewhere in Arizona set up a trust for themselves and thought that maybe that'd be a service that they could provide to others for a fee.

As for $1500 to $1600 to set up a trust: that is definately at the very high end of what that service costs and would be the fee for someone with a large estate, several beneificaries and probably several pieces of real estate and multiple assets listed in the trust. If you consider that the going rate for a good attorney in Phoenix is in the $200 to $300 an hour range, $1600 is several hours of work by both the attorney and a paralegal/secretary and atypical for a normal trust involving two or three people and one asset (to start).

GunTrustLawyer is a great self-promoter. :-)

So, did you lultimately have an attorney set one up for you or did you DIY?

I talked to an attorney locally who set up estate planning for my mom, and he's definately a gun guy, and has several items in his own NFA Trust.

He was unwilling to do NFA Trusts for others because he didn't know all the rules. I was a bit taken aback by that since he'd done his own.

I've sent repeated emails and even called GunTrustLawyer about a Trust in Arizona, and received zero response.

Eventually, I just wrote my own based on this and many other threads.

That is the impression I have been getting from the attorneys I have talked to: not willing do a NFA-centric trust for other people. Very frustrating.

My interaction to Mr. Goldman (guntrustlawyer) was similar (no response to repeated emails initiated from his website) until I called him, then he had to 'call me back'. Took days so I called again. He had to call me back again. Took days again. I called again and finally asked him to take just a few minutes to answer a few questions, he said he "had three minutes" so I asked some quick questions which he answered but not to my satisfaction. I found out how the process works with his documents and I'm not willing to pay whatever he charges to have someone fill out blanks in a PDF for me, then claim to give follow-up adivce if he cannot ever be nailed down for three minutes in the first place.

Have you submitted your own, and received ATF approval? Wanna sell a copy?

I just made a generic trust like this thread details.

I'd also pay for a copy of one of the "NFA Specific" trusts.

I'll probably end up making my own as you've suggested.

Surprisingly, I have found nobody willing to share documents like this. Whatever happend to "open source"? I guess I work in an enviornment (IT, software, consulting) where many, many developers are willing to write a piece of software and share that source code to be used as part of a larger piece of sofware to be used and shared freely by anyone. Its called freeware and sharware and is usually released under the GNU General Public Licensing which protects the creator for legal recourse if something goes wrong, but allows anyone to use that softwarae for non-retail purpuses (google Free Software Foundation, GNU, or GPL). I wish that was the case here.

With you 100% (I'm in IT as well, and work with entirely open source) but once lawyers get involved they want their piece of the pie, and if they can charge $800-1000 to one client, its easier to do than charge $100 to 10 clients.

I do have a lawyer friend who is interested in learning how to do this, "sometime" -- I need to convince him some more.