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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 24 Jul 2011, 11:53 
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xoff00 wrote:
Mr.Maim wrote:
xoff00 wrote:
I just made a generic trust like this thread details.

I'd also pay for a copy of one of the "NFA Specific" trusts.


I'll probably end up making my own as you've suggested.

Surprisingly, I have found nobody willing to share documents like this. Whatever happend to "open source"? I guess I work in an enviornment (IT, software, consulting) where many, many developers are willing to write a piece of software and share that source code to be used as part of a larger piece of sofware to be used and shared freely by anyone. Its called freeware and sharware and is usually released under the GNU General Public Licensing which protects the creator for legal recourse if something goes wrong, but allows anyone to use that softwarae for non-retail purpuses (google Free Software Foundation, GNU, or GPL). I wish that was the case here.


With you 100% (I'm in IT as well, and work with entirely open source) but once lawyers get involved they want their piece of the pie, and if they can charge $800-1000 to one client, its easier to do than charge $100 to 10 clients.

I do have a lawyer friend who is interested in learning how to do this, "sometime" -- I need to convince him some more. :)


I agree with lawyers wanting us to reimburse them for their law school loans ;) but shooters too. Nobody in any site that I am a member of (seven at last count) has said "here is a trust PDF that I made and filed, its in PDF format, use it at your own risk". Absolutely nobody.


Last edited by Mr.Maim on 17 Nov 2013, 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 03 Oct 2011, 10:06 
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Quote:
Ill be posting mine when mine is done, whether I pay to have an attorney do it, or whether I do it myself.


Thanks! I think many including myself were hoping to find a PDF template and were surprised that nothing was out there. Maybe it is because the "legalese" is state specific?? I don't know, just guessing.

I don't know why someone who has gone though the process wouldn't want to help out the larger community. Most would just use the "will maker / trust maker" software I am sure, and its probably fine, but self-promoting lawyers want to scare you into paying big bucks for them to do it for you. And even paying for the software would be unnecessary if everyone had a reliable free (open) PDF template to use that hopefully was approved by some expert. I think the lawyers also don't want their "OK" on anything just to avoid responsibility (in addition to wanting to make money).

Obviously something from the standard software is not going to be tailor made for NFA purposes but I'm sure its good enough. The other situation where the software may help is in nailing down various state requirements (for example do you have to file something with a particular office if you live in X state?) You could look this up yourself of course. For Arizona you don't have to file it.


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 03 Oct 2011, 13:37 
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Form 1 and citizen form and trust from 2009 and check mailed today


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 14:04 
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MrMcCrackin wrote:
Form 1 and citizen form and trust from 2009 and check mailed today


SWEET! Sounds like someone is building an SBR! :D


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 19 Nov 2011, 07:23 
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Mr.Maim wrote:
MrMcCrackin wrote:
Form 1 and citizen form and trust from 2009 and check mailed today


SWEET! Sounds like someone is building an SBR! :D




Thas right!

One of AZEX's fabled Phone Booth Fighters which should be done in a couple of weeks!


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 18 Jan 2012, 17:40 
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This has been being done here in CA for a long while. Does anyone have or has anyone posted a copy of their trust for others to look at? I was going to do one here in Kalifornistan but retiring to AZ I would have to do it all over again. If possible I would like to start to get my NFA Trust together prior to moving there.

Thanks

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07 FFL / SOT (starting July 2014)
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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 18 Jan 2012, 18:10 
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..


Last edited by Mr.Maim on 17 Nov 2013, 08:47, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 10:46 
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Very frustrating topic to be sure. Everywhere the wife and I have looked in the last few days all point to the snakelawyer in Florida. Calling around local in Phoenix is kind of like watching cartoons. They say the craziest things. Local suppressor company told me that they've done many of them but nobody around to ask questions to without the famous cop-out line of "we're not lawyers". Simply NOBODY in Arizona seems to have anything to start from. I'm sure I can DYI one and keep my fingers crossed but what happens when something isn't the way it should be? Delays, delay, ad naseum.

SOMEBODY out there should have at least a basic platform no? I see promises of folks who'll post one some day but today is today and I'd like to get the ball rolling for us here in Phoenix. I've already began the DYI method but without the benefit of other's experiences how can anyone make intelligent decisions? Can someone please, PLEASE, post any related forms that you've found, used, seen used (approved), etc? Is this simple thing such a precious gem that nobody cares to share with their fellow enthusiasts?

I just read 17 pages of this thread and not one person has stepped up to the plate. Nobody is going to get blamed for HELPING someone. Come on guys, really?

PLEASE share so we can ALL benefit and move forward. If we all have to learn the same lessons the hard way we'll never get past it to learn/change other things. If this was more "common knowledge" then maybe this hobby wouldn't be looked at with such a warry eye. There is so much 'unknown' stuff related to shooting that can get folks in the soup with the law. Once I have one done I will post the damn thing (minus any personal data) and let everyone use it as a platform for their own. So many in this thread have successfully completed the Trust setup and it's sad to see 17 pages of junk amongst the few gems that it contains.

To those who have contributed, "Thank You". Paying it forward makes me feel good too. :)

Dale
rcsavager@gmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 13:27 
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RCSavager wrote:
I see promises of folks who'll post one some day but today is today and I'd like to get the ball rolling for us here in Phoenix. I've already began the DYI method but without the benefit of other's experiences how can anyone make intelligent decisions? Can someone please, PLEASE, post any related forms that you've found, used, seen used (approved), etc? Is this simple thing such a precious gem that nobody cares to share with their fellow enthusiasts?

Dale



You PM'd, I've sent. Promise kept. ;)


Last edited by Mr.Maim on 17 Nov 2013, 08:47, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 13:40 
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Did you miss this post with links to a how to with examples?


exNavy wrote:
As promised, I wrote an excruciatingly detailed article on how to do this. Thanks go out to eodinert for helping me fine tune some details here and there and giving me an education on some things. I can't wait to buy my first goodie. It's my hope that this can help someone out. If there are any suggestions on how to improve this article, I'm more than happy to hear them and I'll make a change if need be. I'd really like this to be as perfect as possible. Thanks to AZEX for starting this thread and getting everyone thinking about this.

NFA article


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 15:33 
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I didn't miss that at all. Actually that was one of the most informative things I've seen on the subject. My concern was that at the top of the page it shows the article was done 3 years ago. That was cause for concern. I was hoping that since this thread had been around since Sept 2006 that I'd find something. Now, that being said I sure wasn't disappointed to find all that great information.

I've found lots of information here and there but no place did I find it say something like "this is what is needed, here is an example...". The examples he related to was simply aged information and I was looking for more recent in case things had changed. Just playing it safe is all.

I got Mr. Maim's email and looks to be EXACTLY what I was looking for. I haven't gone through it yet as I just got home but that's on my to-do list for the evening. THANK YOU SIR! /bow

If I make any forward progress I'll make it a point to help others as well. Thank you to everyone who's helped. We're all the winner here in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 15:47 
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I used that link to do mine, the only thing that has changed is the form 1 and maybe the mailing address.

I found that the BATF now requires all 3 schedules even if they are blank.


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 17:25 
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MrMcCrackin wrote:
I found that the BATF now requires all 3 schedules even if they are blank.


MrMcCrackin: what do you mean by this? What three schedules?

I have Form-1 and Form-4 submittals sent out in the past few months using four seperate dealers in the PHX metro area, on different items. That has not been mentioned by any of them.

Where did you come by that information?


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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 17:33 
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Just a thought, crazy as it may be...

This kind of information is IMPORTANT!
The ATF requires a very specific set of data to approve submissions.
Any lack of information they require simply accumulate delays in what should be a simple tax paid to a Government entity to cover possession of said restricted article.

Why the hell can't we just go to the ATF site, do a quick search, download their forms/instructions?
FFS folks, lol.

Just saying, some days you have to see the humor in it or you'll go crazy. Off to peruse all this information now so hopefully I can get it sorted and help the next guy just wanting to honestly play by the rules and keep everybody happy. I don't want me/wife going to the cage because I said something like "here honey, try my .308 with the suppressor on it". As an individual possessor of the suppressor I have just broken federal law by relinquishing possession to someone without the transfer paperwork that the ATF requires to allow that. The smart option is for us to put it in a trust that makes it safely legal for both of us to shoot without breaking an existing law.

At the end of the day, we just want to follow all the rules and be happy/safe from legal problems. We don't want problems, we just want to make our shooting a little more enjoyable by taking some of the loud BANG out of it. Nothing nefarious here. With it being so important you'd think the agency responsible for enforcing the rules would make it easy for us to understand the damn things. "Here, print this, fill it out in duplicate, include *this* information. Go make a sandwich and we'll get back to you in 6 months." Seems like the most intelligent thing to do. I guess our government can't really be accused of that now can they? Sad but true.



On a side note, when I looked up information I put "NFA Trust Arizona" in Google and this one amongst the slew of SnakeLawyer ads. So when folks Google this information THIS is where it takes them. That alone makes this site one of the most seen places for guys looking for this information. You gained a new member today just so I could ask my questions today. I like the place, I think I'll stick around a while, happy to be here. /wave

So including this information in THIS particular thread probably means more to the common man than a new site detailing all the information. It will take time for the searches to find the new info and move it to the top. With that said, congratulations! This site is the sole voice of reason on page one of the results. And I for one would like to help the next set of folks that are looking for this information. Thank you all.


Last edited by RCSavager on 27 Jan 2012, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to: Living Trust for NFA transfers
New postPosted: 27 Jan 2012, 17:34 
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Mr.Maim wrote:
MrMcCrackin wrote:
I found that the BATF now requires all 3 schedules even if they are blank.


MrMcCrackin: what do you mean by this? What three schedules?

I have Form-1 and Form-4 submittals sent out in the past few months using four seperate dealers in the PHX metro area, on different items. That has not been mentioned by any of them.

Where did you come by that information?


He's referring to the Schedule A-C forms. At least that's my thought.


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