ArizonaShooting.com

"The #1 Resource for Shooters in Arizona!"
It is currently 22 Oct 2014, 15:03


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]







Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 20:47 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2010, 18:08
Posts: 294
Location: Glendale
Here is the symptom:

When completely empty...if I rack the slide like we were taught, by racking all the way and letting go, the hammer ends up in a half-cocked position. When racked without letting go (not riding the slide home, but not letting go either) the hammer behaves as it should.

With ammo in it, it behaves as normal.

Any ideas? Do you need any more info?

_________________
"Nothing pisses off the Black helicopter crowd like calling them the Black helicopter crowd."

-Administrator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 21:15 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular

Joined: 11 Dec 2010, 23:57
Posts: 336
Location: Tucson
Hammer is following down for a multitude of possible reasons...

Is the pistol bone stock? Modified? Do you know who did the work?

The jarring of slamming the slide home w/o ammo can trip the sear and the hammer comes down. It hits the half-cock notch because the trigger isn't pulled to the rear.

The gun is unsafe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 21:28 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2010, 18:08
Posts: 294
Location: Glendale
It did have a Nelson Ford Reliability Job done to it about 500 rounds ago.

_________________
"Nothing pisses off the Black helicopter crowd like calling them the Black helicopter crowd."

-Administrator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 21:41 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular

Joined: 11 Dec 2010, 23:57
Posts: 336
Location: Tucson
FWIW, I've heard many 1911 'smiths claim that you shouldn't 'drop the slide' on a pistol with any trigger work.

I'm not sure what his 'reliability job' entails, but if it included any trigger/sear/hammer work - that could be the source of the issue if the behavior wasn't present before.

If you're comfortable detail stripping the pistol, I would do so and look for chips/nicks/rounded edges on the sear engagement surfaces (on sear and hammer) to see if the problem is due to anything obvious. If you're not - I'd immediately seek the help of a competent gunsmith. It might be worth re-approaching Mr. Ford to correct the issue, but if he created the problem... or could have... maybe that wouldn't the best course of action.

What brand of pistol is it? Out of curiosity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 21:56 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2010, 18:08
Posts: 294
Location: Glendale
The more I read, the more I am understanding. I don't believe I have done any excessive slide dropping (until today when I noticed the problem) I am usually quite careful. It is an American Classic II Commander (made by Metro Arms). It is actually quite the nice shooter, but I don't know how much more $$ I want to put into it. At some point, I need to step up the ladder to a real 1911.

_________________
"Nothing pisses off the Black helicopter crowd like calling them the Black helicopter crowd."

-Administrator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2011, 22:09 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular

Joined: 11 Dec 2010, 23:57
Posts: 336
Location: Tucson
I'm not of the belief that dropping the slide should hurt a properly built pistol. I'm merely repeating what gunsmiths oft tell their customers.

I've read around about this particular 'smith, and he seems to regard himself amongst the greats but despises the shorter 1911's and his work is hit 'n miss. The reason I ask about the particular model, is that not every 1911 is truly built to 1911 specs, and as a result applying the same 'tricks' that a 'smith might normally apply can have an adverse effect on an 'off-brand' pistol. This isn't your fault, however.

If you're not willing to put any more money into it, I'd cut your losses now and sell this particular model off to fund a new project. Of course, I'd inform the potential buy that it is a 'gunsmith special' and needs attention before it can be fired.

That said, it appears most opinions of this particular 1911 aren't that low - the cost of a new pistol will be extensive compared to fixing this one. A decent smith would likely accomplish the task for parts + labor, and in the end you'll likely wind up with a much better trigger than you have now and the confidence of quality work behind it. There are many 1911 'smiths that this board could recommend, I'm sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 14 Jun 2011, 16:57 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2010, 18:08
Posts: 294
Location: Glendale
I took it over to Jeff at Magnum Precision / Shooter's World. Although I am not a big fan of SW, they seemed like really good people at MP and my hopes are high. Thanks to everyone who PM'd me with there horror stories and advice. I promise not to divulge.

_________________
"Nothing pisses off the Black helicopter crowd like calling them the Black helicopter crowd."

-Administrator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 25 Dec 2011, 16:34 
Offline
AZS Regular
AZS Regular

Joined: 19 May 2006, 16:07
Posts: 107
Don't drop the slide on an empty chamber. Stop it. Don't do it. This isn't something that you do based on your feelings. It just shouldn't be done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 30 Dec 2011, 09:06 
Offline
New to AZS

Joined: 20 Dec 2007, 10:25
Posts: 16
Location: Cave Creek, Az.
wildearp wrote:
Don't drop the slide on an empty chamber. Stop it. Don't do it. This isn't something that you do based on your feelings. It just shouldn't be done.

It SHOULD be done periodicaly to check for hammer follow!
I believe his problem can be solved by adding more tension to the left most leg of the sear spring providing the hammer/sear interface is not dammaged.

_________________
Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 10:11 
Offline
AZS is my home
AZS is my home
User avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 2005, 01:28
Posts: 11601
Location: Queen Creek aka Queentucky AZ
Give gool ol' Nelson a chance to allay your fears. If you're not happy with the hammer falling to half-cock. TELL HIM.

Don't take it to someone else, until and unless he tells you to FO.

I doubt he will, most smiths are very protective of their reputations.

_________________
AZEX, 17426 E. HUNT HWY. QUEEN CREEK, AZ 85142 www.azex.co FIDEI DEFENSOR
"If you press (cops...for more accountability) they will whine like Muslims, murderous, unaccountable, hypersensitive to criticism and perpetually offended."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 10:35 
Offline
New to AZS
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 00:04
Posts: 43
The sear is obviously being jarred out of engagement. As mentioned, adding more tension to the sear spring may help, but I think that would only mask the symptoms of a greater problem. I've seen this issue before with pistols that have had a "kitchen table trigger job" done.

The gun isn't safe use. You should definitely take it to a competent gunsmith.


As for dropping the slide on an empty chamber... the pistol regularly endures pressures of 20,000+ psi and all the stresses associated with firing. I think it can handle having the slide dropped on an empty chamber. Doing so doesn't even touch the stresses of firing it.


-T.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 14 Jan 2012, 15:48 
Offline
New to AZS

Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 21:56
Posts: 79
Kimber recommends the "slingshot" method on their ultra models, whether it loaded or unloaded. They also say its better to dry fire instead of easing the hammer down with your thumb while pulling the trigger.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 21 Mar 2012, 22:00 
Offline
AZS Addict
AZS Addict

Joined: 05 Apr 2008, 02:11
Posts: 761
Location: Phoenix
AZEX wrote:
Give gool ol' Nelson a chance to allay your fears. If you're not happy with the hammer falling to half-cock. TELL HIM.

Don't take it to someone else, until and unless he tells you to FO.

I doubt he will, most smiths are very protective of their reputations.



This,ived used Nelson Ford many times to smith on my guns,never an issue.He stands behind his work.
Id recommend him and think gun should go back to him.
As for dropping the slide on an empty chamber,
While an occasional or accidental occurrence may not damage ones pistol the repeated act of the slide slamming closed on an empty chamber can have an adverse effect on the pistol's hammer and sear geometry as well as cause battering between the frame, slide stop, and barrel feet. Whenever possible ease the slide home when not chambering a round.
Dropping the slide on a live round slows the slide down and cushions it,prevents issues.Have seen damaged slide stops,damaged barrel feet and messed up sears faces.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 21 Mar 2012, 22:13 
Offline
AZS; Woohoo!
AZS; Woohoo!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005, 14:05
Posts: 2025
Location: Central Phoenix
If you must drop the slide on an empth chamber, do it like the gun was designed to operate, i.e., with the trigger held back. This takes the sear out of engagement and precludes this problem from happening. When the command "show clear, slide down, hammer down" is given, leave the trigger back when dropping the slide. Saves a lot of wear and tear on carefully fitted parts. And, yes, take it back to Nelson!~ He will make it right!

L. Mike

_________________
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have
to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond the Horizon, 1942

"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle,
anywhere, at any time, and with utter recklessness." R.A.H.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help me troubleshoot my 1911 (series 70)
New postPosted: 21 Mar 2012, 22:29 
Offline
AZS; Woohoo!
AZS; Woohoo!
User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2009, 21:34
Posts: 2633
... It could be your sear to disconnector interface is worn out of spec

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group